question about (maybe sensitive) Christianity

**kittikins** · 10-02-2011, 08:27pm

Someone recently told me that suicide was an unforgiveable sin for Christians. I thought that was Catholics. Is it? Don't worry, this is not about me, someone else.

**PoppyHoney** · 10-02-2011, 08:34pm

I believe for Catholics it's seen as a sin against Hope, which is seen as the ultimate sin because you are giving up hope in God.

Just as another point, Catholics are Christians, anyone who believes in Jesus Christ is a Christian. You differentiate between denominations, ie Catholic, CofE, Baptist.

**Peridot** · 10-02-2011, 08:35pm

I think it depends on the person you are talking to.
Personally, myself & my family do NOT believe this but some old school christians would argue that suicid is the equivilent of murdering a human life that God has provided (I know...crazy!)
From the people I know that are Christians 1./ they would say it is not their place to judge & 2./ they would say that in order for some one to commit suicide they are not in a "sound" mind as such & that mental illness & despair is a real illness.
Without sounding like a complete bible basher (which I am not) I believe in a God who loves & a God that understands the pain of people like this, not a God that punishes.
I think it very much depends on the sort of church a person goes to. i was brought up in a Baptist style church and was not taught of suicide being a sin. I don't go to church anymore although occaionally go to a CofE one and would say they hold the same attitude.
In a complete Dot Cotton style voice ... according to the gospel of St.Matthew chapter 7, judge not, that ye benot judged!

**Shoppie** · 10-02-2011, 08:35pm

I don't believe that the majority of Christians view suicide as an unforgiveable sin though I know that isn't necessarily one and the same thing as whether doctrine says it is or isn't. I have seen debate on the point, and like many debates I try and resolve them in my own head through the new testament. In the new testament Jesus says: Mark 3:28-29, "Truly, I say to you, all sins will be forgiven the children of man, and whatever blasphemies they utter, but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin"

I have seen debate about what precisely constitutes 'blasphemy against the Holy Spirit' and like so much I suspect this is ultimately interpreted at a personal level. For me personally, someone who seriously contemplates suicide, never mind commits it, is mentally unwell. So I hand on heart do not believe they will be judged based on that act.

**kittikins** · 10-02-2011, 08:40pm

some interesting points here that I hadn't considered. Sorry poppyhoney, I appreciate that Catholics are Christians, I think I was thinking of Christians that aren't Catholics if that makes sense.

Shoppie - how are you??

**ms sweetcheeks** · 10-02-2011, 08:41pm

Thing is Catholics are Christians

According to the Catholic Church, death by suicide is considered a serious sin. The Catholic Christian argument is, that one's life is the property of God and a gift to the world, and for someone to destroy that life is to wrongly assert dominion over what is God's and is a tragic loss of hope.

In fact no religion looks upon suicide as something forgiveable.

Suicide is forbidden by Jewis law.

Islam sees suicide as the greatest sin of all.

And so on..

**Shoppie** · 10-02-2011, 08:41pm

Originally Posted by kittikins

Shoppie - how are you??

clearly a bit

with hormones! Seriously though I have a few hobby horses and this is one of them!! Unforgiveable sin undermines the whole concept of Christianity imvho, the whole point is its forgiveable if you truly repent - no matter what and you can't repent a suicide as its too late - but I don't think you get judged on that

The reason blasphemy against the holy spirit is not forgiveable is in essence you are saying you don't believe in the holy spirit, i.e. that God can rescue us from our sins which means you are not Christian in itself. Christians are not 'special' in that they suffer with doubt, mental illness etc just like everybody else and yes sometimes they do end their lives through suicide.

**PoppyHoney** · 10-02-2011, 08:44pm

Originally Posted by Peridot

From the people I know that are Christians 1./ they would say it is not their place to judge & 2./ they would say that in order for some one to commit suicide they are not in a "sound" mind as such & that mental illness & despair is a real illness.
Without sounding like a complete bible basher (which I am not) I believe in a God who loves & a God that understands the pain of people like this, not a God that punishes.
I think it very much depends on the sort of church a person goes to. i was brought up in a Baptist style church and was not taught of suicide being a sin. I don't go to church anymore although occaionally go to a CofE one and would say they hold the same attitude.

I totally agree with all your points. Mental illness is exactly that, an illness. I.e out of our control. It's not a sin, and the God that I believe in and love would not punish anyone for it.

I was brought up in (and still attend regularly) a church that is a very interesting mix. It's very high-church, we have smells and bells for every occasion, but at the same time it's very liberal. Our vicar lived with his gay vicar for 10 years, and when I was a pregnant unmarried teenager no one batted an eyelid, but was just thrilled for me!

**PoppyHoney** · 10-02-2011, 08:45pm

Originally Posted by Shoppie

clearly a bit

with hormones! Seriously though I have a few hobby horses and this is one of them!! Unforgiveable sin undermines the whole concept of Christianity imvho, the whole point is its forgiveable if you truly repent - no matter what and you can't repent a suicide as its too late - but I don't think you get judged on that

The reason blasphemy against the holy spirit is not forgiveable is in essence you are saying you don't believe in the holy spirit, i.e. that God can rescue us from our sins which means you are not Christian in itself. Christians are not 'special' in that they suffer with doubt, mental illness etc just like everybody else and yes sometimes they do end their lives through suicide.

It's one of mine too, seeing things from both points of view.