Difficult question

[Lois Lane]

If a very good friend of yours was a childminder and had a history of PND (which she had recovered fully from) would you trust her with your child? This is not a bunfight starting question, I am SERIOUS! The friend in question is absolutely devoted to her child and shows no sign of relapse. During her PND phase she did not harm herself or her child in any way.

Discuss.

I'm really interested to hear the answers as it will help me with a dilemma.

Lois x

PS. I should point out that on the application form for childminding the very first question on the health questionnaire is 'have you ever suffered from depression or any other mental illness such as self harm or an eating disorder'. Would this question filter out the person in the scenario above?

[Azana]

Yes I would trust her. There by the grace of God etc..If it was a good friend though I would prob have a frank discussion about it, but I might be more worried about having a business relationship with a friend more than her having been ill with PND iyswim.

Az

[Lois Lane]

A fair point Azz - thanks for your honesty.

[redhed]

Hmmm. It's a difficult question because the temptation on a public internet forum is to make the "politically correct" answer, not the honest one.

For me, it's pretty much like any long-term illness (by which I don't mean a lifetime sentence, but something that can take a while to shift and can recur as opposed to something like chicken pox which you have and then it's done.)

I think that of course I would trust her, but would try to find out a lot more about the illness first, cos I am woefully ignorant about mental health issues. I'd need to be happy that:
- she was "well enough" now (whatever "well enough" means in context of this illness) and that my ghastly offspring wouldn't push her over the edge because then I'd feel "responsible" and horribly guilty.
- I could spot any signs of trouble coming back; It seems some people don't realise they are ill till they are right up to their ears in it again. Though you know your friend best - maybe it doesn't take her this way in which case it's not an issue.

I don't think I'd be happy to let someone who was suffering badly from depression at the time look after my children - even if I was confident they were safe, they might not get much interaction, time out of the house etc. I have a friend who is a SAHM and does have quite severe depressive episodes; she's put her child into nursery for the duration as she just retreats into a shell till she's better and meantime she thinks her daughter is better off with other people.

[Lois Lane]

Hey Red - don't let PC-ness get the better of you, your honesty is what makes you YOU!!

I really appreciate your answer. I don't think that somebody with depression (as I have had myself) is ever 'cured' of it - I do see it as a lifetime's illness - some may disagree - that can be 'managed'. I agree that if it was my child then I would be inclined to read up on the condition myself first so that I was fully aware of it.

[Princess Fiona]

I think it depends how good a friend she was and whether she had confided in my during the PND. If she was not a close friend and i wasn't fully away of her PND history and she was unwilling to talk about it with me then i'd probably have reservations about leaving Lu with them.

However if she was a close friend and had talked in detail about her PND and i was happy that she was fully recovered then i don't see any reason why i shouldnt trust her with my child.

I agree with Azz though about the friend/business relationship, it doesn't always work!

[Chocolate Lips]

If it were a close friend of mine and I knew all about her situation then I am pretty sure I would trust her with Isabel.

However, if it were a stranger or someone else I didnt know so well then I think I would have some reservations about it to be honest.

Friendwise, I think as long as I was clearly 'in the know' about her PND and to extremes it had gone to, I would probably be comfortable leaving my child with her - because PND isnt always or hardly ever about harming anyone is it? (sorry I am not an expert on this at all, I dont really know anything...) I thought it could sometimes be more about how you feel about yourself, low self esteem etc?

[noo noo]

Forgetting about the close friend bit for a second if I was to be choosing a childminder I dodn't think I'd even consider asking if she had a history of mental illness!

[Chocolate Lips]

Forgetting about the close friend bit for a second if I was to be choosing a childminder I dodn't think I'd even consider asking if she had a history of mental illness!

actually thats a really good point! I need to start looking for a childminder, but then again, I would presume that the childminders had already been vetted to make sure they are not all serial killers etc

[Lois Lane]

because PND isnt always or hardly ever about harming anyone is it? (sorry I am not an expert on this at all, I dont really know anything...) I thought it could sometimes be more about how you feel about yourself, low self esteem etc?

You are right Joanna - it is very rare that a mother with PND will harm her baby (only a small percentage of women get psychosis which is the worst form of PND) but as you say, you might not be aware of that if you didn't know what PND was all about.

Noo Noo - you wouldn't consider it even if the friend in question had PND?

[Cherrypie]

Honestly - it would depend on who the friend was, how the PND had manifested, and how long she had been in recovery from PND.

TBH, having had PND myself, it might make me a bit wary if I didn't know the person. But if I was satisfied that she really was recovered, and that when she did have PND it hadn't involved any harm or neglect of her child, then I don't think it would put me off using her as a childminder.

As Az says, business relationships with friends can be tricky. So it would be very important to set out ground rules, terms and conditions etc very clearly beforehand, so that neither party felt that the other was taking advantage of the situation.

[noo noo]

Noo Noo - you wouldn't consider it even if the friend in question had PND?

Maybe I'm getting confused now! But why would I consider asking someone who I knew had PND if they had a history of mental illness when I already know that they do?

Also I don't think I would use a friend a s a childminder - its just too complicated - in fact I wouldn't use a childminder full stop but thats a different issue.

1 in 4 people will suffer mental illness at some point in their lives - thats a hell of a lot of peo;le to rule out from looking after your child be they childminders, teachers or nursery nurses etc.

[Chocolate Lips]

but as you say, you might not be aware of that if you didn't know what PND was all about.

Ignorance is part of the probem, we only really hear about extreme cases through the media and press.

[Lois Lane]

Noo Noo - you wouldn't consider it even if the friend in question had PND?

Maybe I'm getting confused now! But why would I consider asking someone who I knew had PND if they had a history of mental illness when I already know that they do?

Also I don't think I would use a friend a s a childminder - its just too complicated - in fact I wouldn't use a childminder full stop but thats a different issue.

1 in 4 people will suffer mental illness at some point in their lives - thats a hell of a lot of peo;le to rule out from looking after your child be they childminders, teachers or nursery nurses etc.

Sorry maybe I misread what you said. I read your comment about not allowing someone to be a childminder if they had a history of mental illness. Well PND is a form of mental illness so I was asking you if you would NOT consider using a childminder who had a previous history of PND?

I am wondering if for instance someone like you or I applied to be a childminder, would we be filtered out in the system because we had previously suffered with PND and not be allowed to be one in the first place?

Oh it's all too complicated for my wee brain!!!

[noo noo]

What I meat was that if I was looking to emply a childminder I personally wouldn't even consider asking them if they suffered from PND/mental illness etc. I can't see how you or I couid be excluded form becoming a childminder (although I would NEVER want to!!!) It comes back to my point about 1 in 4 people will suffer mental illness at some point in their lives - thats a hell of a lot of peole to rule out from looking after your child be they childminders, teachers, nursery nurses etc.

[Lois Lane]

Ah, gotcha. I know what you mean now!! Sorry, just having a stupid brain moment!!

[She Devil]

if i knew this friend well and she had been in recovery from it for a while yes i would trust my child with her.


I have had alot of experience in the past with mental health problems with a friend/ex but never actual PND.

One more thing i think having a friend to childmind is alot better than a stranger, i from experience have done this and have not found it difficult at all. my sister still does this and has never had a problem either. :ellie:

[Damsella]

Ignoring the "friend" issue, then no - it wouldn't occur to me to ask if the childminder had had a mental illness. I would meet her, check she'd been vetted, and judge her on her own merits.

I would speak to her every day about how my child was that day, and so I think I would see if she (the childminder) was struggling in any way.

After all, just because someone has never had PND or depression doesn't mean they won't get it, does it?

(Lois, I assume you are considering a change of career? :wik: )

But on the "friend" issue, I think it would make life difficult. I wouldn't leave my child with a friend, because you need a professional working relationship and resentments can arise between friends if words have to be said.

[bisy backson]

i agree that the friendship would be more of an issue for me than the PND.

i would presume that the person in question wouldn't even be in a position to be working as a child minder unless their pnd was sufficiently under control from their point of view. ie i couldn't imagine that they would consider themselves able to undertake such a task if their pnd was still sufficiently active if you see what i mean.

so for me, the pnd wouldn't be an issue because i would presume it would be under control for the person to be at that stage in their lives (lois i hope you can identify with what i am trying to say!)

the only worry with pnd i would have, if i had one, would be that if the person in question had a 'bad' day, they wouldn't feel themselves capable of looking after my child and i would be stuck without childcare. i wouldn't have any qualms about them harming the child in anyway as in my experience depression manifests itself in the sufferer feeling inadequate and punishing themselves, not anyone else iyswim.

so i would be stuck at the first fence with using a friend and it would never really get to the pnd issue for me.

a lot of forms ask for a history of mental illness and it doesn't necessarily mean they are trying to preclude people, it would possibly be discussed at interview in the same way as say heart problems or migraines - as an awareness type of thing.

bbxx

[Lois Lane]

See, this is why I'm so glad I have you guys to ask about these things as you are raising issues we hadn't thought about. I just assumed that, hey it's a friend = trustworthy = wayhey, not that it could potentially damage the friendship. I've just been focussing on the PND issue and probably, as you say Bisy, they aren't trying to catch people out, just be aware of all the facts as you would want to be before putting a child's welfare in anyone's hands.

Damsels ROCK!!!!!!!!!!

[bisy backson]

so are you gonna do it??? :clap:

bbxx

[Annie Goolahey]

A friend of mine is a childminder and has had PND. I would trust her with my child implicitly.

[Lois Lane]

so are you gonna do it??? :clap:

Still thinking about it. I am reading a load of bumph I've pulled from the internet and hubby and I are discussing at length. I did casually mention it to the friends in question this morning and my friend emailed me and said that he and his wife had already discussed it and thought it was a good solution all round!!! They didn't even know about my intentions - unless they are secret Damsels LOL! There is a hell of a lot to consider - I'm not worried about the various background checks as I've had all those previously for work (security/police checks etc) and I have nothing to hide!

[Muppetgal]

isn't it against the law to discriminate against someone because of mental illness, especially something they've recovered from?

I'm sure there were ads on tv about that a few years ago.

The "friends" thing would be more of an issue for me, rather than the recovered PND thing.

[popinjay1]

I would see the 'friend' thing beng a bigger issue than the PND one too. If I was considering a friend who had recovered from PND then that wouldn't put me off at all. My Mum has been a sufferer of depression for the best part of 40 years and I wouldn't think twice about leaving the girls with her (slightly different situation I know).

[Annie Goolahey]

Well the friend thing wouldn't bother me either- although I can see how it might concern people.
My aunt minds J for me and I love knowing that someone who genuinely loves and cares for him, who has a vested interest because of their relationship with me, is watching him. I also know we have very similar values etc.

There have been a few tricky moments over her insistence on giving him loads of sweet treats but apart from that it has been fine.