Dh thinks there might be something wrong with her

[Micah]

Yet again this weekend, DH pointed out that C is quite obsessive about certain routines and order and is worried she may have some sort of OCD or autistic spectrum disorder :-( . He mentioned taking her to the HV/GP a while ago. He thinks she is hard work to the point of not being *normal*.

Thing is, I don't feel I can dismiss his worries totally. I think yes, she is lively, and possibly hyperactive, and she does have minor paddies about which cup she wants to drink from or who puts her nappy on or how her toys are lined up, but don't all 2 year olds? However I don't know many children, in fact the only other babies and toddlers I have come into contact with are on Damsels meets :smile: . DH has several nephews, loads of cousins with babies and two children from a previous marriage, so has been around small children alot. I have asked him point blank, saying I have no comparison, and he says he is worried, and he has never come across a toddler with the OCD behaviours C has.

His son from his first marriage is autistic, and I know he is extremely worried about having another child with PDD, and he also got alot of grief from people about his "denial" of his sons autism (not straight denial, he just doesn't agree with some of the ways his son is treated). So I do think that is a factor, although he says his son was very different at 2, much easier and would sit and watch DVD's all day.

So what do I do. Chat to the GP? I am not worried, but then what do I know? The thing that makes me think DH is over-stressing is that C is in nursery full time and they have only ever mentioned her behaviour once, when she bit another child :oops: . I trust the nursery staff and I think they would have mentioned something- I have seen them discussing with other parents how to deal with a particular behaviour.

I don't feel I can put his mind at rest as I don't know enough about normal toddler behaviour or autism, but I am loathe to start down the GP path when I honestly think she's OK. A bit mad perhaps, but then that's the fun of her :lol:

[zwinnie]

Micah, I can totally empathise with you. I too worried about Lexie - she is obssessed with numbers and logos and also v. into her routines. I remember saying to my Mum a few months ago that I was worried that maybe she had OCD (which, incidentally I read somewhere that the guy who discovered this condition has now decided it doesn't actually exist, sorry, totally O/T). My Mum just laughed at me and told me not to be ridiculous.

And she's right, Lexie makes good eye contact and interacts well with people generally. I think the whole routine thing is their way of asserting independence.

That said, if you are worried then to set both your and your DH's minds at rest, it probably is worth a quick trip to the GP.

xxx

[lucypede]

Is he reading too much into things? She sounds like a normal healthy stroppy 2 year old to me! I come across lots of small children with my job and your LO sounds totally normal!! Well, I just really hope for you that he is wrong xxx

[Rez]

I'm no expert but it sounds like pretty normal behaviour to me Micah.

My DD is very opinionated about everything and minor paddies are also a very regular (daily!) occurrence. Does she change what she plays with and what cup she will drink out of for example?

I think the nursery would have voiced something if they had any concerns. My DD's nursery certainly did when they thought she had hearing problems and they were right - she had glue ear.

Do you think your DH may be a bit too worried about it and seeing things that aren't really there? All children are different after all. Also, don't medical students notoriously diagnose themselves with everything they study? Too much knowledge can be worrying sometimes.

I'd maybe suggest chatting to your HV if she's a sensible one just to reassure you. After all, they see an awful lot of children and different behaviours.

I'm sure she's fine and you're right not to be worried :smile:

[sparkliness]

TBH it sounds normal to me - Molly is v picky about order of things etc.

BUT only you can really know.

How about asking nursery if they have any concerns etc. Mention that your Dh has experience, and you just want to check that they feel that everything is progressing 'normally'.

That might give you a bit more insight into the situation.

[Blonde Girl]

she does have minor paddies about which cup she wants to drink from or who puts her nappy on or how her toys are lined up, but don't all 2 year olds?

I don't have any formal 'advice' - but this is EXACTLY like Dan, and he is inconsolable if things aren't done the 'right' way.

I see it as normal toddler behaviour - there is very very little in their lives that they can control so it seems logical that they try and control as much as they can - not sure if that quite makes sense but I hope yswim.

[Micah]

Thanks everyone, I was beginning to think that I was being a bit daft not taking him too seriously :oops:

Yes I do think he is reading too much into things, but then the sum of my parenting knowledge is probably this place :lol: . I am sure I have read posts like yours Zwinnie where other peoples children to get routine or train obsessed, which is why I'm not overly worried. But then " I read it on an internet forum" is hardly referenced research (sorry I'm a scientist:wink: ) so I don't feel I can use that argument.

Yes I can change her routines, and I do think she's doing it to be cantankerous and for control, the cup she wants is always the one I haven't just taken out the cupboard :lol: . They haven't noticed at all at nursery, they were quite suprised when I called her bossy the other week. I also think alot of the behaviour is for DH and I, for example my mum can take her out to a cafe and her behaviour will be impeccable, yet if it were me and DH she'd be stropping about which chair to sit on, which fork, exactly which biscuit, whether she wants a cup, glass, straw.... :wink:

He is already panicking about having another baby and it being a boy because of the history :-(

[Micah]

I don't have any formal 'advice' - but this is EXACTLY like Dan, and he is inconsolable if things aren't done the 'right' way.

I see it as normal toddler behaviour - there is very very little in their lives that they can control so it seems logical that they try and control as much as they can - not sure if that quite makes sense but I hope yswim.

crossed posts....but that is what I'm trying to tell DH. He just says he's never seen a toddler do that before over such minor things. I think because we have a good routine overall, she pushes the little things...

[Inks]

I would ask the nursery if they think your DD is progressing normally.

3 months ago I was really worried about my son's ritualistic OCDish behaviour but tried to put it to the back of my mind, telling myself that his routine is his security and to just go with it for now. The nursery teacher said he's absolutely fine while there, mixes well with the other kiddies, etc and so that put my mind at rest a bit.

I have no experience of autistic spectrum stuff so cannot advise you but I would say in the first instance speak to your nursery.

[Minky]

I agree it sounds normal Micah. We now let Lulah choose her cup as it saves time :rolleyes: as you can be sure that we will choose the "wrong" one. She is also very particular that things are done the "right" way and gets upset with other children if they are not right.

The fact that she behaves impeccably for your mum when she goes out indicates to me that she has control over and insight into her own behaviour, and while I know zip about autism, I would imagine these children do not.

Sounds like she's pretty normal!

[*kate*]

Are both of his other kids boys? He might not have encountered a girl toddler in all her glory - I know it's a sweeping generalised statement but in my experience boys are far far easier to deal with as toddlers than girls are (apparently they get hard work later on though!)

If he really won't leave the issue, have a word with your HV who will probably be able to see if this needs further investigation - then you can say you've explored it with a health professional without having to formally consult your GP.

[spritzer]

Having met her I don't think you have too much to worry about. Yes, she's probably a bit up there on the hyper curve and may be a bit of a handful but:

She engages well with others
She'll sit at the table, eat with people, talk and 'do' what everyone else is doing
She plays nicely with and alongside others

So - carry on with the gym classes and keep 'de-bouncing' her regularly and maybe watch her diet to keep her off stimulants but I certainly know other toddlers and little ones that I would be more worried about than C.

HTH:higgies:

[Chell]

My Ds is very much like that, very obsessive about everything being green just now, he must sit in the same chair etc. DD is the complete opposite, very laid back without a care in the world.

[WoollyNewty]

:higgies:

This just about sums Alex up:


I honestly think she's OK. A bit mad perhaps, but then that's the fun of her :laff: (only he's a he :wink:), but sometimes people say things and can really make you worry and then you start looking and looking and getting all :brainache:. I while ago I came home in tears after a friend's little boy said he wouldn't play with Alex as 'he don't talk proper', when she told him not to be rude he said 'yeah but he can't talk, he's stupid' :cry:. He actually CAN talk, pretty well, but at this girl's house he is always really really quiet (most unlike him!) and for some reason never speaks to her little boy or engages with him at all. HOWEVER I then shook myself out and realised that with other children he plays beautifully, has little coversations, amazing imaginative play etc etc so why was I getting so upset?

As BG will probably vouch Alex only has 2 speeds - one is running up and down very fast (often talking to himself) and the other is lying motionless fiddling with something (usually railway related) which he can now keep up for hours - in fact where do you think he is now? Lying on the carpet building a railway muttering to himself about 'red signal, tunnel in there, freight train coming, all the numbers, all the numbers......'. If anyone asks him ANY question he usually answers it with something to do with railways :doh: and the entire hi-light of his week last week was that we took him swimming... not for the swimming you understand but because there is a RAILWAY running alongside the pool car park. He is still talking about the 'swimming railway' now. This is despite living in a house that back on to.... yup.. you've guessed it A RAILWAY :faint:. We have a DVD out now called 'The Story of Steam' which is a very dry documentary about the history of steam trains - he will literally just sit motionless (a miracle!) and watch the entire hour long documentary even though basically nothing happens.

Other than that obsession he has other weird ways - if things aren't done right he become very upset and he is still bordering on phobic about certain textures (he won't go near fluff/fur, won't eat anything 'slimy' and will NEVER get dressed up when they do dressing up time at playgroup - he is hysterical if you try and bring the costumes anywhere near him - all the other kids love it :shrug: - the lady in charge who has years of experience said not to worry and that it was very common in 2 year old boys. I still get a bit 'oh my god, my son won't dress up as Noddy!' in my more paranoid moments though :lol: ).

I don't know C so I can't possibley comment on her specifically but I DO know what it's like to have a slightly 'eccentric' toddler (but aren't they all?) and for people to make comments and then ffor you to feel totally 'OMG!' about it.

[Blonde Girl]

As BG will probably vouch Alex only has 2 speeds - one is running up and down very fast (often talking to himself) and the other is lying motionless fiddling with something (usually railway related) which he can now keep up for hours

This is so very true!

[redhed]

I think you have 2 different issues here: what C needs and what your DH needs.

ASD is (no shit, Sherlock) a spectrum and different kids can present with different bits of it. Furthermore, a lot of it is also "normal" behaviour at some developmental phases, or in small doses. So I'd agree with everyone that everything she is doing is perfectly consistent with NT behaviour.

Looking at it from your DH's point of view, though, the odds are increased with a ASD sib, and if he has any regrets or doubts about his son's diagnosis process, I can see why he would need to _know_, one way or another, right now. However, I've heard ASD is harder to diagnose in girls than boys (their better social skills mask a lot of it) so I don't know if you would get a firm answer at this young age anyway. And would that inability to rule anything out might worry DH more than he is at the moment?

I think the argument to put to your DH is that if she is functioning well in nursery, then in the unlikely event she did have ASD, early diagnosis wouldn't help her. But it is sensible to keep an eye on her, and if nursery raise any concerns, or if in a year's time she hasn't grown out of some of these "phases" then you need to take it further.

[Lois Lane]

It sounds just like Paige to me Micah. I too worried that there was something wrong - we can only have juice from a pink cup, she can only eat beans with a spoon and everything else with a fork (if you try to scoop up beans with a fork we have major meltdowns!), she threw a wobbler the other week when I put her bowl down on the left instead of to the right of her plate!! You get the picture!!!

She also has a thing about matching colours. She has a teaset with blue cup, saucer, spoon etc and they have to sit together - along with a blue pencil for good measure!

After reading about other children on here I realised she is perfectly normal and it was a huge relief.

[Frogslie]

Levi was EXACTLY like this, and also had speech delay (turned out to be spech aspraxia, caused by dyspraxia in the end) and I was worried for a long time. He never played with other kids or talked to them (well, they couldn't understand him anyway as he couldn't actually talk properly until after 2 years of speech therapy)When he was 2/3 my HV mentioned autism and we had him assessed at a special day nursery for 3 weeks to see - - - he turned out to be 'normal' (ha! in MY family? I am ashamed of him).

The obsessive behaviour - opening/shutting doors, breaking biscuits then screaming as he couldn't bear to eat anything if it wasn't in one piece, the phobia about unwrapping presents, the constant turning on and off of the TV etc etc - went on and then he just grew out of it, once he started school. He's nearly 10 now and fairly *normal* but does still have an OCD type thing going on with string/stringy toys... he has to touch them and can't rest until he's done so a certain number of times. He asked me the other day if that was normal and I just smiled:wink: He's OK anyway...

I think all toddlers have 'odd' behaviour patterns and until they start school it's not really worth worrying about unless her behaviour us really disturbing - - - and if it was, I think the nursery would have picked up on it.

ALL KIDS ARE WEIRD:lol: :lol: :lol: My 3 year old told me that he wasn't a real boy, he was a 'ghostie' boy the other day, then pulled down his pants and invited me to kiss his arse butt (again). Now tell me THAT'S normal:happyno: :happyno:

[Micah]

Thanks all, went home from work last night feeling much better :nod:

Kate..no the other child is a girl. But a) he was thrown out before she was two when his ex moved another bloke in :rolleyes: . b) for one reason and another she's thoroughly spoiled little princess- doesn't run about, get dirty etc..:no: . Her major tantrums (and blimey they were/are major :shock: ) didn't start til she was over three, when it was very much a way to conciously manipulate adults.

Thanks Spritzer, as you've met her recently that is exactly what I'll do... her behaviour is much better when she's been swimming/something active and had a good nap.

Red, thanks. I hadn't thought of that side. I had read that there is some argument that autistic children are better in a nursery environment, as they are exposed to other childrens social behaviours. So I would agree that even if she does some mild form of ASD, there's not much we could be doing differently anyway atm?

:lol: LL/Frogslie....I am going to get so fat from eating bl00dy babybels that have broken (major trauma) when she takes the wrapper off, but will she let me do it? :happyno: "I do it myself" flipping broken record to the point that she will go downstairs and come back up again on her own if someone has dared help her :rolleyes:

So good to know other children are as mental as mine :lol:

Oh one more question....I am happy to let her have her little challenges and let her get away with it, as she's pretty good with major ones (nap, bedtime, crossing roads, toys/sweets in shops etc..). Dh has said that we should be a bit stricter and not let her get away with so much (yeah right..he's the big softy :yeahright: ) Do you let the little things slide? IMO that little bit of "control" is quite important to them....

[Lois Lane]

I have to say I'm trying really hard to let the 'little ' things go and since I have, her overall behaviour is much improved. Unless she is causing harm to herself, anyone around her, our belongings/house/or doing something dangerous then she pretty much does as she pleases.

[cartchick]

the phobia about unwrapping presents

Oh I'm SO happy to hear about other weird phobias that toddlers have. C has a phobia of buttons - not all buttons, just ones on his clothes - I've had to cut all the buttons off the tops I want him to wear. Also he has a phobia of balloons. He'll cry even if he sees balloons on tv.

Fwiw, although your daughters behaviour sounds pretty normal toddler stuff to me, I think you should have a chat to nursery and your HV to put your DH's mind at rest. Like Redhead said he's obviously really worried and needs reassurance one way or the other

ccxx

[popinjay1]

Sounds like normal behaviour to me too. But as your DH has an autistic son already he is probably reading too much into her behaviour because of it.

Claire gets majorly upset if a biscuit gets broken too and she has to have everything in 3's as thats how old she is. Her toast this morning had to be in 3 pieces and when I only had 2 she got very concerned, asked how old I was and then said I should have 35 pieces... I think rituals are normal for toddlers and I just go with them. And as nursery have no concerns I dont think there is any need to be worried right now.

[Blonde Girl]

Oh one more question....I am happy to let her have her little challenges and let her get away with it, as she's pretty good with major ones (nap, bedtime, crossing roads, toys/sweets in shops etc..). Dh has said that we should be a bit stricter and not let her get away with so much (yeah right..he's the big softy :yeahright: ) Do you let the little things slide? IMO that little bit of "control" is quite important to them....

I totally agree with you - and your OH and mine are in perfect agreement as well (and like you it is ME who is generally the strict one).

I think they have so little control in their lives that letting them exert some over minor things (climbing in car seat, pouring own milk on cereal, etc) is kind of fair enough really.

[WoollyNewty]

Oh one more question....I am happy to let her have her little challenges and let her get away with it, as she's pretty good with major ones (nap, bedtime, crossing roads, toys/sweets in shops etc..). Dh has said that we should be a bit stricter and not let her get away with so much (yeah right..he's the big softy :yeahright: ) Do you let the little things slide? IMO that little bit of "control" is quite important to them...

YES YES YES! I would totally agree - and I think it is the secret to having a happy time in this house. There is NO leeway about things like going to bed, going for a nap, leaving toys in the shop etc and he is never allowed to get away with stuff like slamming doors (I have a 'thing' about it) but I am happy to let him have his little eccentricities and as you say his bit of control over the small stuff that doesn't really matter (IMHO). For example he gets sort of hysterical if he sees any of the stairgates have been left open :loco: - so if he gets to the bottom of the stairs and sees the top one is open he's all 'OH NO MUMMY! 'OH MY, NOOOOOO!!!' and I just say 'it's all right, it doesn't matter' and quietly go and close it and all is calm. I have friends who would refuse to go and shut it and shout at the toddler, a mass 'debate' would then ensue and sorry but life is too short and I don't think it's benefiting anyone. There are also weird routines involved with bedtime (he has to see train go past, then climb on my lap for tooth cleaning, then get undressed etc etc) and getting in his car seat (involving him doing this sort of mad counting and a jump!) but I think they are important to him and make him feel secure and happy. I'm sure he won't still be demanding to sit on my lap to have his teeth cleaned when he's 14......

When I say no I mean NO and I never change my mind so I make sure I only use it over the important stuff or when they are blatantly taking the p1ss :lol:.


Her toast this morning had to be in 3 pieces and when I only had 2 she got very concerned, asked how old I was and then said I should have 35 pieces

:lol: Bless her! We've had the whole toast thing as well. At one stage it had to be 'whole', then it had to be in 4 triangles, then it had to be in halves...... My OH is so nervous of getting his toast 'wrong' now that he always comes and checks with me how it should be served :oop:.

cartchick - button phobia is actually really quite common! I kid you not - there are plenty of adults who have it. I can't remember the proper name for it but it's a recognised condition.

Frogslie - apart from the speech, what were the clues to the dsyspraxia? We've always thought my brother has it for various reasons (he is still the clumsiest person I know and can't tell the time using a 'normal' clock - even though he's a teacher! His handwriting/drawing is the worst I have ever soon, in fact it stopped him getting a job for ages, and he still makes errors like getting 'b' and 'd' the wrong way round - he isn't dyslexic though. He has a phobia of crisps - yes a proper phobia - and quite a few OCD tendancies about germs, disease etc). My brother is one of the loveliest, kindest, funniest blokes I've ever met but I sometimes think his life would have been easier if everyone had got off his back about being 'thick' (he's far from thick, he's very intelligent - but things like not being able to tell the time or do a school tie up meant he was labelled as such by my dad in particular).

[Frogslie]

Woolly-

Re: Dyspraxia... apart from the speech, it became clear that by the age of 6, Levi had something obviously wrong... his dressing and undressing was very slow, he was very daydreamy, not exactly clumsy but very very uncoordinated, couldn't use cutlery, a very messy eater, couldn't jump with both feet, couldn't keep his legs straight to swim - just loads of little things. And the handwriting - TERRIBLE:happyno: But he can always be a doctor LOL their handwriting is usually awful! He fiddles constantly with string, remote controls, ANYTHING and found it really hard to respond appropriately to other kids e.g. if they greeted him outside school, he'd just stare at them! I 'diagnosed' him myself and had to tell my GP and the school I thought he had dyspraxia cos nobody had noticed:huh: Geez... He is better but has had physio, O.T and all sorts and still is hopeless at getting organised, tying shoelaces, swimming, etc, poor child was desperate to be a pro footballer but we had to explain it might be difficult for him. LUCKILY he is very academic so concentrates on the things he enjoys, and does drama instead of sport at weekends now. OH is the same, it seems to be genetic, apparently if a child has it there's a 60% probability one parent does and it seems to affect more boys (autistic spectrum and all that). So I can always blame OH for everything:lol: :lol: BTW Lev's last teacher couldn't spell or tell the time bless him and he was a great teacher so noone cared, I bet your bruv is too:wink: Your Dad sounds like a bit of a git though, bet that didn't help your poor bro...

[Rowan Tree]

Olivia prefers to have her toast in squares. Today I did triangles just to see what would happen. She was remarkably ok about it. Must be at the chilled end of the normal toddler spectrum,:tongue: .

Micah, I'd ask your OH to take your LO to the doctor or HV himself. That way he can explain HIS fears and concerns directly. It doesn't have to be you, and in a way, probably would be best coming from him, as you don't entirely share his thinking, and would not be able to explain his point of view acurately anyway.

Stru