I dont understand

[honeybunchbuffle]

I dont understand how there can be people living in this country as British Citizens allegedly sitting round a table planning how they can blow up innocent people:shock:

I dont understand how anyone but the mentally insane would have these thoughts at all:huh:

Can someone enlighten me?

[sapphire]

I don't understand it either. :no:

[Nat]

No, I cant enlighten you, I have always wondered the same thing.

To live, work, and in effect make a country your home, and then want to terrorise, maim and your fellow citizens for "the greater good" or whatever it is they believe. Its sick. End of.

[Damsella]

I don't know either, maybe ask the IRA?

[Princess Fiona]

At the risk of being jumped on, i'd say religous brainwashing might have a hand in it somewhere along the lines.

Ducks for buns!!

[Alycat]

Did anyone see the programme earlier in the week What Muslims Want?

Was shocking how people born and bred in this country have such a hatred of it. It is not their parents that have made them like this as it showed that the younger generation are taking their religeon more more seriously than their parents who have become more westernised. It is the popel who are coming over to this country as immigrants and are infiltrating colleges/universities/youth groups and planting seeds in the mind of these young british born muslims

[honeybunchbuffle]

At the risk of being jumped on, i'd say religous brainwashing might have a hand in it somewhere along the lines.

Ducks for buns!!

Yes I think so too but dont know how you can be brainwashed into something thats so alien from the start:angry:

[DannyGirl]

When I heard it on the radio this morning I did think to myself why would people do something like this? Why can't people just be "normal"? It's so sad :huh: :huh: :huh:

[Annie Goolahey]

I've lived in a country where that was the norm for a long time.

IRA men would hijack my dad (a postman- so they wanted his van) and make him drive through the streets with a gun pointed to his back telling him they were going to blow up the van and him and whoever else was in the way.

They did that eight times.

My dad is Catholic.

They are dirty, rotten, bastarding feckers the lot of them.

[Damsella]

Religion - ain't it wunnerful?

[Alycat]

They are dirty, rotten, bastarding feckers the lot of them.

Couldn't have said it any better myself Lola

[seashell]

Religion is just an excuse though isnt it for the evil that can come from human beings.

[Matilde]

The shocking thing is that these people see themselves as idolised fighters, martyrs, heroes..you name it...but not MURDERERS which is what they are.

As an ex-pat myself I can say I find it very difficult to understand. This country has welcomed me and allowed me to ba part of it..why would I hate it?

[Damsella]

Religion is just an excuse though isnt it for the evil that can come from human beings.Men, generally. Their mothers may encourage them, but it's them who feel it so necessary to blow people up. Always has been.

[seashell]

I know what you mean Damz, like a violent streak that is found in men more than women.

[Alycat]

Religion is just something to hide behind, I have a very close Muslim friend who is even more appauled than me by the activities of of some muslims.

The thing is, each and every religeous text, the bible included, can be interperted from it's original form into so many different ways to suit their activities making them believe that what they are doing is according to holy law.

However you cannot get away from the ten commandments, particularly thou shalt not kill. In the Koran the only crime bigger than taking the life of another is taking your own life, and my friend said according to the Koran these people will not be martyrs as they believe, but will burn in hell

[seashell]

Religion is just something to hide behind, I have a very close Muslim friend who is even more appauled than me by the activities of of some muslims.



definately definately agree, we have muslim friends too who are appalled at all this.. it really affects all the innocent muslims too in lots of ways

[Damsella]

I was thinking of the IRA as well, not just muslims. Also Israel, of course.

[Teresa]

I don't understand it either.

[Alycat]

On the day of the 7/7 attacks my friend and I were travelling to London on business, when what had happened broke the news the train was stopped and turned around at Milton Keynes. My friend proceeded to take off her headscarf and said she would not out me in danger of verbal or physical attack just for travelling with her. She said if I was attacked or hurt by someone because of her she would have commited a sin and was not prepared for that to happen.

This is just an insight of how true Muslims believe

[seashell]

I remember seeing this drama on Channel 4 called "White Teeth" and in it one of the muslim characters got caught up in it all and they showed how he was "brainwashed" into it all by watching videos and lectures and stuff, it was very interesting and frightening as he was just a normal lad before...

[seashell]

Alycat, that is so sad.....

[Alycat]

It is very sad, but she has been verbally attacked and pelted with missiles simply for wearing a headscarf before now. She explained that although it was an important personal thing to her she was not prepared to put me in danger because of it.

[*Marti*]

Did anyone see the programme earlier in the week What Muslims Want?

Was shocking how people born and bred in this country have such a hatred of it. It is not their parents that have made them like this as it showed that the younger generation are taking their religeon more more seriously than their parents who have become more westernised. It is the popel who are coming over to this country as immigrants and are infiltrating colleges/universities/youth groups and planting seeds in the mind of these young british born muslims

Makes me mad...if they hate Britain so bad...MOVE AWAY!!!, killing innocent people isnt really going to make it better is it. What are they expecting? kill people and then all of a sudden England is Eden?? Doesnt work like tht!:angry:

[ChelseaHarvey]

Why cant we just transport all immergrients, packistan people out of this county and back to where they came from???

[Alycat]

Marti that is exactly what some of them are expecting, shockingly enough.

Martin Fry was interviewing one extremist who held these views and said that he hated all that Britain and it's people stood for and another Muslim man said,to the extremist, you are happy to take the free education, healthcare, benefits but won't accept the law of the land, in that case you should leave the country.

[DannyGirl]

Why cant we just transport all immergrients, packistan people out of this county and back to where they came from???

I find that comment deeply offensive. Not all immigrants are terrorists.

[Damsella]

Why cant we just transport all immergrients, packistan people out of this county and back to where they came from???I don't think that is the answer, CH. If someone is born in Britain they are British - this is where they came from.

This is a religious issue, not a race one.

[MsNat]

Why cant we just transport all immergrients, packistan people out of this county and back to where they came from???

Because a lot of them have been born here or have been here for many generations and this is their home just as much as it is yours or mine.

Please don't let a tiny minority of sick and twisted individuals make you have this attitude.

[Alycat]

Why cant we just transport all immergrients, packistan people out of this county and back to where they came from???

CH not all Muslims are immigrants in fact a majority of them are British people. I find that comment a little bit ignorant tbh and sounds like something that Alf Garnet would say

Where exactly would the British born people be sent back to?

[DannyGirl]

I think that sort of attitude makes you think that some people do not appreciate what actually immigrants have done to help this country.
Who does she think clean the offices, hospitals, trains etc?
Who does she think will be doctors and nursers "if they all went back to their own country"? (I'm not saying that all doc/nurses are immigrants)

I'm really angry by that comment that CH made, its shows the ignorance of some people. I would expect this sort of attitude from a 60 year old pensioner not a 20 something

[Twistarella]

Why cant we just transport all immergrients, packistan people out of this county and back to where they came from???

Whoa lady! You been reading the Daily Mail?!

If that were true, my DH and his family would be back on the first flight to Hong Kong. I would be left without a husband and my unborn child without a father.

You cannot go around saying things like that!

[Damsella]

I think CH's gut reaction is shared by a lot of people actually.

Maybe it's fairer to say - if you don't like the way we do things in this country, why not go to somewhere like Iran, Nigeria or Afghanistan where the sharia law suits you better?

[*Marti*]

you are happy to take the free education, healthcare, benefits but won't accept the law of the land, in that case you should leave the country.

:agree: :agree: :agree:

[Damsella]

You cannot go around saying things like that!Well, actually, she can. That's what this country is all about - being able to air your opinions. You may not agree with CH, but you can't tell her what she can and can't say.

[Twistarella]

I think CH's gut reaction is shared by a lot of people actually.


And that's the shame. Because 'immigrant' refers to anyone who isn't British by birth and so you're saying that only British people can live in Britain. No Americans, Irish, Germans, Norwegians, Chinese, Australians.

That's just madness and tarring everyone with the same brush!

[Twistarella]

Well, actually, she can. That's what this country is all about - being able to air your opinions. You may not agree with CH, but you can't tell her what she can and can't say.

Agreed. But when someone is saying that my family are not welcome in this country then it gets my back up. It's attitudes like this which makes me very fearful for my child's future.

[DannyGirl]

I agree with Twist here, CH made a racist comment which is unacceptable, yes everyone is free to say what they want but I cannot endorse racism

[Alycat]

CH is perfectly within her rights to say what she believes, I just find it really sad that someone of our generation has such ill informed beliefs

[Damsella]

Look, I didn't say I agreed with it. But in order to have an informed and useful discussion we must remember that a lot of people do feel like that. And generally they are talking about non-white immigrants.

[Hello Kitty]

Look, I didn't say I agreed with it. But in order to have an informed and useful discussion we must remember that a lot of people do feel like that. And generally they are talking about non-white immigrants.

Unfortunately with some many people reading pieces of cr*p like the Daily Mail, I think Damz is right. Some people believe everything they read in the papers. I think everyone should appreciate that terrorists are a minority and could come from anywhere...

[Alycat]

Were it not for immigrants my Mum may have died 3 weeks ago, the 2 surgeons, the anethetist (sp?) and at least half of the nursing staff who looked after her, and are still doing were of non british descent.

Thank god they weren't sent "back to where they came from" is all I can say

[Damsella]

I think everyone should appreciate that terrorists are a minority and could come from anywhere...

Well exactly, which is why I mentioned the IRA earlier. There aren't many non-white members of the IRA, are there!

[Matilde]

CH is perfectly within her rights to say what she believes, I just find it really sad that someone of our generation has such ill informed beliefs


I agree with this Aly, I don't think CH really means to put me on the next easyjet back to Madrid with any malice.

*Matilde starts packing* :lol:

NOT, it's 40 degrees over there, are you crazy?

[tekkencat]

Why cant we just transport all immergrients, packistan people out of this county and back to where they came from???

What?? that wasnt as serious reply was it?

My ma and pa are "immegrants" they have lived and worked here since the 1950's are you suggesting we ship 2 old age pensioners back to their motherland ??

I am actually quite offended by that flippant comment and it takes alot to do that!

[Twistarella]

I really hope that the next generation will be more well-informed and educated about such issues. I don't think there's much we can do to 'undo' the bitterness that some of our generation have towards non-whites/non-Brits.

One of the most shocking things I ever had said to me was about 2 mins after my DH had proposed to me when a drunken white man came over to me and called me the 'c' word because I was 'with someone who didn't belong in this country'.

Unbelieveable.

CH - I'm sure you didn't intend to cause such offence with your words, but please never let your gorgeous boy hear you say anything like that....it wouldn't be fair to influence his thinking at such a young age when he will be going to school and growing up with children who aren't white and British

[DannyGirl]

What?? that wasnt as serious reply was it?

I am actually quite offended by that flippant comment and it takes alot to do that!

I'm glad somebody is agreeing with me here, starting to think i've gone mad :lol:

[sapphire]

I'm sure CH didn't mean it in a racist way - maybe she meant the immigrants that are involved in terrorist activities etc.

Which brings me on to a good point - what should be done with people who are involved in terrorisim? If they're British Nationals, Immigrants etc...?

ETA: by immigrants i don't mean descendants I mean people who weren't born in britian or who do not have british citizenship before I get accused to any racist behavior

[DannyGirl]

One of the most shocking things I ever had said to me was about 2 mins after my DH had proposed to me when a drunken white man came over to me and called me the 'c' word because I was 'with someone who didn't belong in this country'.

Unbelieveable.


Oh thas terrible, must have been shocking

[sapphire]

One of the most shocking things I ever had said to me was about 2 mins after my DH had proposed to me when a drunken white man came over to me and called me the 'c' word because I was 'with someone who didn't belong in this country'.

:shock::shock: thats disgraceful!

Although it's not just white people who are racist - which is what is often portrayed.

[DannyGirl]

I'm sure CH didn't mean it in a racist way - maybe she meant the immigrants that are involved in terrorist activities etc.

Which brings me on to a good point - what should be done with people who are involved in terrorisim? If they're British Nationals, Immigrants etc...?

I'm sorry but how do you know she didn't mean it in a racist way? Any people who are involved in terrorism I hope end up in jail.

[Hello Kitty]

Pathetic, at the end of the day who can honestly say they are truly from this country? I bet if we all trace our family histories we will find we have come from all over.

[Twistarella]

:shock::shock: thats disgraceful!

Yep and that's what I remember when I think about when my DH proposed to me. But anyway, forgive me if I get slightly irate about comments like 'send them back to their own country'

[sapphire]

I'm sorry but how do you know she didn't mean it in a racist way? Any people who are involved in terrorism I hope end up in jail.
Danny I dont know! I'm just saying that maybe she didn't mean it that way!! Problem is when you're conversing via online line text it doesn't always come across how it is meant.

[Twistarella]

Danny I dont know! I'm just saying that maybe she didn't mean it that way!! Problem is when you're conversing via online line text it doesn't always come across how it is meant.

I really *hope* she didn't mean it in the way it came across, but I guess only she can tell us that.

[DannyGirl]

Sorry not picking on you sapphire, :flowers:

Its just a sensitive topic to me. My mum worked her ass of as a nurse in this country for many decades having been invited to this country to help them out. And it really angers me when people make racist comments, and people try and cover for them. People should be held accountable for what they say without excuses.:-(

[Alycat]

I'm sure CH didn't mean it in a racist way - maybe she meant the immigrants that are involved in terrorist activities etc.

Yes but how do we know who is and who isn't involved in terrorist activities, surely if they knew those that where then the authorities could deal with them anyway, by locking them up in jails rather than sending them "back to where they came from" where they could continue their activities and make their cause even stronger

[Damsella]

Calling CH a racist will be less effective than gently trying to alter her views.

In my opinion.

[sapphire]

I wasn't covering up for her. If she meant it in that way then she obviously has a problem but you know what it's like you sometimes say things and they come out all wrong because you can't depict tone or sometimes you just get your words all mixed up (al la moi)

[Matilde]

I don't know CH personally but she is a very sweet well mannered young lady and I think she'll be shocked to see the offense she's caused, I am sure, unintentionally.

[Hello Kitty]

I don't know CH personally but she is a very sweet well mannered young lady and I think she'll be shocked to see the offense she's caused, I am sure, unintentionally.

Yes I think that's what Sapphire was trying to say...

[sapphire]

Yes but how do we know who is and who isn't involved in terrorist activities, surely if they knew those that where then the authorities could deal with them anyway, by locking them up in jails rather than sending them "back to where they came from" where they could continue their activities and make their cause even stronger

I don't know it was just a thought. I don't agree with what CH typed and don't associate myself with anyone who has that attitude either.

[DannyGirl]

I wasn't covering up for her. If she meant it in that way then she obviously has a problem but you know what it's like you sometimes say things and they come out all wrong because you can't depict tone or sometimes you just get your words all mixed up (al la moi)

Yes I know what you mean i'm not the most succinct person really.

[sapphire]

Yes I think that's what Sapphire was trying to say...

in a very long winded way it was!

[DKNI]

CH I cannot believe that you really think like that!

In that case all protestants in Northern Ireland should be "sent" back to Scotalnd and England as apparently they are not really irish.

With that attitude all immigrants not only non whites should be sent back to their own countries.

It should be more about eduacting people and acceptance than sticking a stamp on them and sending them home

Not too sure about the IRA Damz but two of the top boys on the loyalist side are egyptian brothers. Dad was egyptian mum was from belfast.

[DannyGirl]

I agree that people need to be educated but I'm not sure if that will change deeply held beliefs. Maybe there will always be people who don't like you because of the colour of your skin or religion. :-(

[*kate*]

I'm sure CH didn't mean it in a racist way It's a racist comment - how is it NOT meant in a racist way?

And I'm sure you CAN'T go around saying such things - isn't that what the Race Relations Act is there for?

It's like those comments by people who say "I'm not racist....BUT" and then proceed to be racist.

This is an internet forum and there's a wide cross section of people on here, including people in the groups mentioned - I think they'd be very offended. I know I would.

Religion is different from race. Before commenting, I believe that you need to know the facts from an unbiased source. That doesn't include the Mail :rolleyes:

[tekkencat]

I agree that people need to be educated but I'm not sure if that will change deeply held beliefs. Maybe there will always be people who don't like you because of the colour of your skin or religion. :-(

I honestly dont think the education will ever happen we'll always have people who think you should go back to where you came from because of the colour of your skin just as we have the sterotype of the corner shop being asian run and your local takeaway being a chinky and not a chinese takeaway etc

[sapphire]

It's a racist comment - how is it NOT meant in a racist way?

And I'm sure you CAN'T go around saying such things - isn't that what the Race Relations Act is there for?

It's like those comments by people who say "I'm not racist....BUT" and then proceed to be racist.

This is an internet forum and there's a wide cross section of people on here, including people in the groups mentioned - I think they'd be very offended. I know I would.

Religion is different from race. Before commenting, I believe that you need to know the facts from an unbiased source. That doesn't include the Mail :rolleyes:

Kate....I explained my reasons for posting that and won't be going through them again. I also am fully aware of that religion is different from race and fyi I don't read the mail...never have, never will. :rolleyes:

[*kate*]

I'm not flaming you Saphhire :smile: it's just the original comment was quite offensive. My comments weren't really aimed at you.

[sapphire]

I'm not flaming you Saphhire :smile: it's just the original comment was quite offensive. My comments weren't really aimed at you.
I wasn't sure - sorry x

[DannyGirl]

These are for you sapphire :flowers: just incase you thought I was attacking you too, I honestly wasn't. As I've said previously it was the original comments made by CH which upset me.:kiss:

[sapphire]

I know you both weren't I'm sorry too for being bolshy!!

Of course your going to be upset anyone would.

[Damsella]

Well, actually both our corner shops are run by Asians :lol: And the one nearest us is one of the nicest shops I have ever had the luck to live near. The Patels (yes, really) always give DD a biscuit when we go in :smile:

You can be a racist in the UK, it is not illegal. But you cannot discriminate (in the worklplace, say, or in a venue) on grounds of race, or religion, or gender.

[Princess Fiona]

Why cant we just transport all immergrients, packistan people out of this county and back to where they came from???

OMG Gemma, i can't believe you've just posted this, are you really THAT small minded :no:

[Lois Lane]

I always thought that we were much more educated in this day and age about racism until the other day when I had to pull FIL up on calling his hispanic gardener (I apologise in advance :oops: ) a greasy dago!!!!!! DH and I looked at each other and looked like this :shock: :shock: I explained to him that you cannot say things like that along with a number of other dreadful 1970s words that people use to describe people of other ethnic origins and he GENUINELY didn't think he was in the wrong!!!!:faint:

I am thankful that our daughter (who picks up everything you say and is in a very mixed race class in nursery) was not around to pick this up.

[Damsella]

I think that ChelseaHarvey's lack of posting on Damsels since that post show that we have, hopefully, given her pause for thought.

Now for my own gut reaction input - why do men feel that killing each other, plus women and children, is such a great idea? :rolleyes: It's always bloody MEN!!!

[Lois Lane]

Now for my own gut reaction input - why do men feel that killing each other, plus women and children, is such a great idea? :rolleyes: It's always bloody MEN!!!

Ah, but wasn't there a pregnant suicide bomber in the middle east a few weeks back??? Agreed that it is MAINLY men though.

[Damsella]

It is 99.99999999999999999999999% men, agreed.

[Annie Goolahey]

I actually can't believe CH said that...

[Blonde Girl]

I always thought that we were much more educated in this day and age about racism until the other day when I had to pull FIL up on calling his hispanic gardener (I apologise in advance :oops: ) a greasy dago!!!!!! DH and I looked at each other and looked like this :shock: :shock: I explained to him that you cannot say things like that along with a number of other dreadful 1970s words that people use to describe people of other ethnic origins and he GENUINELY didn't think he was in the wrong!!!!:faint:
.

Sadly my inlaws are incredibly similar. In fact to my utmost shame so is my own father. It horrifies me each and every time I hear one of them use a word that is offensive, yet they don't even realise that what they are saying is so wrong.

Back on topic a bit I can't understand why people live somewhere they hate so much. I work for a company with many non-English people - from all over the globe and it wind me RIGHT up when some of them moan on and on about how rubbish London and the UK is. If you don't like it here, then leave!!!

[Bex]

i agree CH's post was a bit tactless, but i dont think its racist, she's just asking a question, not very well put but i don't think it can be labelled as racist. it really annoys me how people can be instantly labelled as ignorant, uneducated and racist just because they happen to not like immigrants entering our county in the volumes they do with they the attitudes some of them hold or religoius groups which hate us and try to kill us. Many religions/ethnic groups are allowed to publicly hate us (british people of all colours) and celebrate our tragedies (eg flying flags and shouting praise in our town centres after 7/7 with no police intervention, demo's outside mosques etc), you must understand that it is getting tiring being the only ones not allowed to say a word against anyone without being labelld a racist just because they are a different race and happen to like us dead. I'd hate anyone who celebrated 7/7, white, black or purple personally.

I think CH is probably feeling the same as many people throughout the county today who are sick of people entering our courty, then moaning about and trying to kill us, if they don't like it, why don't we send tthose ones home???? it is not racist to suggest such a thing, just unfair to say send them ALL home. It is just such a shame for the innocent immigrants that come here with good intentions and no plans to brainwash our british muslims to murder their neighbours but to integrate and help the county.

i also disagree with dannygirls comments on employment, maybe if immigrants weren't taking all the low paid jobs, cleaning etc then maybe they wouldnt be so low paid as no one would do them, then british people currently on their backsides living off the state might get off their arses and earn something for themselves if the wage was worth earning, but whats the point in competing for a low wage when benefits work out more. Also there is another side of the coin, my husband is an electrician, work in trade is rapidly becoming more scarce and less well paid because of the huge amounts of polish tradesmen entering the uk for work, they are undercutting the british workers who have union rates to keep to.I do not hate polish but i do think we should look after british workers, not make them unemployed for the sake of workers from another country. what do you think of this situation?

BTW, just to make it clear, im not racist, i dont dislike anyone for their race/religious beliefs and i don't read the daily mail :smile:

[*kate*]

Sadly my inlaws are incredibly similar. In fact to my utmost shame so is my own father. It horrifies me each and every time I hear one of them use a word that is offensive, yet they don't even realise that what they are saying is so wrong. I've left my mother's house this morning because of exactly this. Obviously because she's my mother I love her, but I find her attitudes towards race deeply offensive and it annoys me intensely when she uses offensive racist terms in front of the children. She knows I don't like it but because she's used those terms all of her life, she fails to see why they're offensive.

[Lois Lane]

I've left my mother's house this morning because of exactly this. Obviously because she's my mother I love her, but I find her attitudes towards race deeply offensive and it annoys me intensely when she uses offensive racist terms in front of the children. She knows I don't like it but because she's used those terms all of her life, she fails to see why they're offensive.

Do you think it's a generation thing Kate?? My FIL and his friends still use these terms that back in the 70s were more acceptable (though IMHO deeply offensive).

[tekkencat]

think CH is probably feeling the same as many people throughout the county today who are sick of people entering our courty, then moaning about and trying to kill us, if they don't like it, why don't we send tthose ones home????

its easy to say we import our terrorists like we do cheese but come on we breed them ourselves quite well lets not delude ourselves and reduse it to send um packing talk

[Twistarella]

its easy to say we import our terrorists like we do cheese but come on we breed them ourselves quite well lets not delude ourselves and reduse it to send um packing talk

Totally. Those in custody today are British born according to the news. How can you send someone back to 'their' country when Britain is their country - they were born and brought up here.

I agree with what was posted earlier about anyone not liking the way things operate in the UK to the extent that they want to kill innocent people should leave the country, but that applies to all of us!

[Bex]

its easy to say we import our terrorists like we do cheese but come on we breed them ourselves quite well lets not delude ourselves and reduse it to send um packing talk

I agree, but it has also been said that it is the extremists we are importing that are influencing/brainwashing the british ones (who are not blameless as they have freewill) These british muslim were probably law abiding uk loving british citizens before they were influenced.
Why not send back the extremist ones/ the ones we suspect may influence or act out themselves????

[Lois Lane]

Why not send back the extremist ones/ the ones we suspect may influence or act out themselves????

But how do we KNOW who these people are??? If you believe them, the families of the 7/7/ bombers didn't even know they were involved in this sort of activity????

[Bex]

I agree with what was posted earlier about anyone not liking the way things operate in the UK to the extent that they want to kill innocent people should leave the country, but that applies to all of us!

i agree, but not that it applies to all of us. i can criticise my country the one i grew up in and my parents parents parents grew up in but i wouldnt dream of putting myself in another country that neither me or my family had contributed to and then complain about how it operates to the extent of trying to change it, i would just leave. My own country i am paying for and my family have paid for for centuries, i have a right to complain how my money is spent and not to just leave, although tempting!

Its like staying at another persons house and telling them their decor is awful then trying to change it, its rude. if i don't like my own house, the house i have paid for and lived in, i have a right to complain but when a person is in my house, its my rules, like it or leave.

[tekkencat]

I agree, but it has also been said that it is the extremists we are importing that are influencing/brainwashing the british ones (who are not blameless as they have freewill) These british muslim were probably law abiding uk loving british citizens before they were influenced.
Why not send back the extremist ones/ the ones we suspect may influence or act out themselves????

oh come on do you seriously beleive that - obviously you do which is a damned shame

Now i know life isnt perfect and we are allowed freedom of speech but some of the things that have come out on this thread today and really quite shocked me - the small mindness/head in the sandness of it all is sad really really sad - remind me what the Nazis once said - send them home - now tell me what the difference is?

[Bex]

But how do we KNOW who these people are??? If you believe them, the families of the 7/7/ bombers didn't even know they were involved in this sort of activity????

I know it is a tough one lois, the home grown ones are a lost cause as they can mingle freely. but importing extremists to influence our british muslims, i think a bit of intelligence and a look into their background before handing out the passports like sweets might help. If they have been involved in terrorist activity or suspected or clearly hate the western world, the door should slam shut in their faces. If we could stop them from entering, they wouldnt have chance to influnce our homegrown would-be terrorists although im sure its not all that simple in every case.

[Twistarella]

i can criticise my country the one i grew up in and my parents parents parents grew up in but i wouldnt dream of putting myself in another country that neither me or my family had contributed to and then complain about how it operates to the extent of trying to change it

I get what you're saying, but I go back to my original point that those in custody today are apparently British born, so I assume (maybe wrongly) that their families HAVE contributed to this country. Just like the families of the 7/7 bombers did - they were all upstanding citizens of their communities, running their own businesses.

Obviously the indvidual themselves may not have ever contributed, but so much of this is down to the brain washing which was mentioned earlier, but like you said, they have to consciously make the decision to carry out the act which is where someone needs to step in and take action to protect innocent people.

[Twistarella]

importing extremists to influence our british muslims

Sorry, don't mean to be picking on you in particular!! :smile:

I just wanted to say that quite a few extremist British muslims actually travel abroad to stay at camps where they get brainwashed etc. But how do you monitor the travel activity of these people? Sheesh it's so difficult....I guess we're incredibly lucky that our security services managed to pick up on the plot today because it seems like the only way to stop these planned attacks.

[Bex]

oh come on do you seriously beleive that - obviously you do which is a damned shame

Now i know life isnt perfect and we are allowed freedom of speech but some of the things that have come out on this thread today and really quite shocked me - the small mindness/head in the sandness of it all is sad really really sad - remind me what the Nazis once said - send them home - now tell me what the difference is?

oh yes i forgot, add small mindness to the list of labels for people who have an un-pc opion.

to bring up the nazis because some people are sick of us importing terrorists is just silly, no one is suggesting to gas all muslims or anything like it. Another example of taking comments to the total extreme and being a racist because a person doesnt like being bombed in their own country.

[Bex]

Sorry, don't mean to be picking on you in particular!! :smile:

I just wanted to say that quite a few extremist British muslims actually travel abroad to stay at camps where they get brainwashed etc. But how do you monitor the travel activity of these people? Sheesh it's so difficult....I guess we're incredibly lucky that our security services managed to pick up on the plot today because it seems like the only way to stop these planned attacks.

its ok :smile:

I agree, but if the uk was to monitor all muslims travelling to their native lands that would be classed as discrimination wouldnt it? even if it uncovered these "camps" and prevented furthur british terrorists. But i still think there is brainwashing/anti-uk talks in this country too, and most definitely recruitment by immigrants, this is what shouldn't be allowed.

I totally agree, we should be counting our blessing today and after all the security lapses that have been reported in the past in our airports etc, this is brilliant to show that our intelligence atually works!! Hopefully the future terrorists maybe put off.

[Lois Lane]

I don't know how we can stop these people entering Bex unless we have a blanket 'no immigrants' policy???? Surely if they are covert terrorists then there will be nothing gained by background checks as they will be covering their tracks?? Like the case of the 7/7 bombers - to their friends and families they were totally normal, law-abiding citizens. They could have been going to the pub/down the snooker hall with their mates to do their plotting and unless they were saying 'BOMBS', 'AL-QUAEDA' out loud then why would you suspect anything untoward?????

[Twistarella]

some people are sick of us importing terrorists

But we're not!! :doh:

And besides, I think most people would agree that some form of action needs to be taken to prevent ANYONE from planning these sorts of attacks, but to generalise and effectively say 'send anyone who isn't British back to where they came from', like CH did *is* racist, although having known her for a while, I'm prepared to give her the benefit of the doubt and will assume she didn't actually mean it how it came across until she wants to come and explain what she said.

[Twistarella]

But i still think there is brainwashing/anti-uk talks in this country too, and most definitely recruitment by immigrants, this is what shouldn't be allowed..

Absolutely. I'm always so paranoid that I look like I'm having a pop at one individual in particular when I get in to these sorts of debates on forums, but I'm not, honest!! :grin:

[Damsella]

This is not a nationalist thing for the bombers - it's a religious thing. It's not our country they hate, it's our religion.

ETA: They also want to determine our foreign policy of course, by getting out of Afghanistan and Iraq.

[Bex]

dont worry, im a big girl twist!:smile:

I dont agree with CH's comments to send back anyone who isnt british but i dont think it was racist.

I just think we should be more selective about who we let in and look at what they have been doing before getting the welcome pack.

so twist, are you saying that over the last ten years, not one immigrant entering uk has contributed to terrorism or entered uk with anti uk/racist ideas?? its the minority of course butstill, why are they here? and why are they STILL here?

[Twistarella]

so twist, are you saying that over the last ten years, not one immigrant entering uk has contributed to terrorism or entered uk with anti uk/racist ideas?? its the minority of course butstill, why are they here? and why are they STILL here?

No, not at all. Of course there will be some that have slipped through the net and will continue to do so. I just personally believe there's a greater threat from our home-grown terrorists which is very scary. But I do agree that we should be looking very carefully at anyone wanting to enter the country on a permanent or temporary basis to prevent any British muslims from being exposed to extremist views, but again, how do you prevent British muslims from travelling abroad where they can be brainwashed.

[Annie Goolahey]

Thirty years ago had I travelled to London and spoken with my accent I would have faced the risks modern muslims do today. If a bomb went off close to where I lived then chances are because of my accent, religion and where I was brought up I would have been hauled in.

In those days we were subject to internment in Northern Ireland. We could be arrested "just because" and this system was abused horrendously.

I know first had how dangerous it is to tar an entire community because of the actions of a few. I think some people here are in real danger of doing that and it is a crying shame.
There are hardliners and extremists in our own communities- the WASPs who hold Neo-Nazi rallies etc,

[ChelseaHarvey]

I don't think that is the answer, CH. If someone is born in Britain they are British - this is where they came from.

This is a religious issue, not a race one.

Im on abput the ones that come over here that havent been born here!!! Im on about the ones that come over illegally and they dont shouldnt need to be be here

[tekkencat]

oh yes i forgot, add small mindness to the list of labels for people who have an un-pc opion.

to bring up the nazis because some people are sick of us importing terrorists is just silly, no one is suggesting to gas all muslims or anything like it. Another example of taking comments to the total extreme and being a racist because a person doesnt like being bombed in their own country.

but being labelled a bomber because of your religion/colour of skin is ok yeah ?? ahhhh i see that wasnt un pc enough ???

i wasnt being extreme - i was doing exactly what you were saying but with different people - but you say thats not right??? you've fallen on your own arguement

[ChelseaHarvey]

I think CH's gut reaction is shared by a lot of people actually.

Maybe it's fairer to say - if you don't like the way we do things in this country, why not go to somewhere like Iran, Nigeria or Afghanistan where the sharia law suits you better?

Thankyou!!!!!

[ChelseaHarvey]

And generally they are talking about non-white immigrants.

This is who i am talking about, all the packistan people that have emigrated over here, these are the poeple causing theres problems and doing these bombs

Im not on about chinese, americans etc

[ChelseaHarvey]

I think that ChelseaHarvey's lack of posting on Damsels since that post show that we have, hopefully, given her pause for thought.


No, i just havent been near my PC since i posted that message

I hope that my above comments explain what i meant. Im not a raciast person at all.. Far from it and i dont want my son to be either

[ChelseaHarvey]

I was actually in town this afternoon and was watching the news in the bank

I thought to myself i bet alot of people are lying low today in fear that they will be attacked, its sad that this happens, and people do just tar them as they are the same religion and race. But that is how people are and the way the world works, sad i know but its true

[Twistarella]

This is who i am talking about, all the packistan people that have emigrated over here, these are the poeple causing theres problems and doing these bombs



Oh man alive.

:doh:

[DannyGirl]

i agree CH's post was a bit tactless, but i dont think its racist, she's just asking a question, not very well put but i don't think it can be labelled as racist.


The question she is asking is and I quote-
"Why cant we just transport all immergrients, packistan people out of this county and back to where they came from??? "

Of course this is racist she is asuming that all Pakistani's are terrorists. She is generalising about a race of people. I think that's racist.

However I understand your point about everything being so pc these days, and I hate when anything happens to somebody they play the race card, but in this circumstance I call a carrot a carrot.

I would not call anybody uneducated or racist if they happen to say something negative about the fact that there are people who would like to blow up the country. But there are limits about tarnishing everyone with the same brush.

[ChelseaHarvey]

Im sorry if i offernded anyone i didnt mean to

My first post also was just a question that i quickly posted. i didnt mean to upset any one with that comment/question :no:

Sorry guys!! :kiss:

[DannyGirl]

This is who i am talking about, all the packistan people that have emigrated over here, these are the poeple causing theres problems and doing these bombs

Im not on about chinese, americans etc

What about the Indians, Arabs etc Aren't they all terroists? :doh:

[Twistarella]

[B]Im sorry if i offernded anyone i didnt mean to



I'm sure you didn't sweetie, but then you came back with this nugget:

"This is who i am talking about, all the packistan people that have emigrated over here, these are the poeple causing theres problems and doing these bombs"

I think the problem I have with that is your use of the word 'all'....don't tar the entire Pakistani community living in Britain. The vast majority of them are good people contributing to and living in harmony with the rest of British citizens.

[noo noo]

CH stop now - you are digging a deeper hole for yourself. This isn't the first time you have posted racist comments so best to apologise and step away.

[Fantasseee]

I find the best way to get a good understanding is to watch programs like Question Time, especially around times like 9/11 and 7/7. When you hear these educated people of all races and cultures discussing why young Muslims are becoming radicalised for example, and turning to extremism to express themselves, it makes you have a deeper understanding.

I believe the younger generation don't feel as strongly that any country is 'theirs'. Perhaps its because we didn't have to fight for it and are too young to have been affected by those who did lose their lives, but because of this i don't feel i have the right to throw anyone out of anywhere.

Even my incredibly bigoted father had to concede that if he was in a country where he couldn't earn enough money to support his family and was told that there was a better life in another country and all it would take is x and y, that he would be there in a shot.

Immigration has always existed, it certainly isn't a modern phenomenon, and CH if we and many of the other European countries hadn't travelled the world colonising other countries and by doing so making those people British citizens, then they wouldn't have made their way over so easily. It is US that created the situation, US who invited and encouraged many people to come over to fill jobs that we couldn't fill ourselves due to skills shortages, so to turn around and make such an ignorant statement about 'sending them back to their own country' is incredible.

Lastly i just wanted to say that it is surely a fine example in that the man making the most important decisions in the world, Bush, is as thick as shit, trigger happy and hadn't even stepped foot outside his own country before election to have the faintest idea what was happening in the world. IMO he was voted in by rednecks and i think he is pouring fuel on the terrorists flames everytime he opens his mouth. I am embarrassed that he is the elected representative of the western world.

[ChelseaHarvey]

CH stop now - you are digging a deeper hole for yourself. This isn't the first time you have posted racist comments so best to apologise and step away.

Ummm id like to know when?

[WiCkEd_WeNcH]

I just have one thing to add here, you say people should be "educated", who dares to educate people properly now for fear of upsetting the pc brigade.

And terrorists should be jailed, i'm sorry but I don't want taxpayers money keeping these people alive in quite good style. They don't deserve it. And there you will get amnesty international campaigning for the release of the "politcal prissoners"

I'm not against people of any nationality, and i'm certainly not racist.

It doesn't help though that people do believe everyting they read in papers, not just the daily mail but in the sun et al.

Just my tuppence worth

[Annie Goolahey]

But Samiseal, Nelson Mandella was a "terrorist".
Should he have been gunned down?
I'm not agreeing with the feckers behind these attacks- far from it- but you can't tar everyone with the same brush.

While I agree with the "cause" in Ireland for example, I do not support the actions of those who carry it out.
Political prisoners are not all suicide bombers.

[Lois Lane]

Gemma - please, step away from the PC, you are really digging yourself deeper and deeper in here.

Pakistanis are not necessarily terrorists just as immigrants aren't necessarily terrorists.

[DKNI]

I just want people/kids to be taught tolerance toward others and their religious beliefs. I don't think any religion genuinely condones violence and so much of it is all based on interpretation.

I think Lola made some good points about being tarred with the same brush and I know we are from the same country so our views may be quite similar in some respects but I am from the other community and we were always labelled as the oppressors and that is hard to understand for someone who was never involved in anything or had any contact with those sorts of people.

The fact that today in the UK some people will be walking around in fear becasue of a religious belief and how they show that is a scary thought. So many more innocents will suffer.

Growing up in Belfast the only other 'race' we had were chinese and cantonese immigrants but then the next generation were born in Belfast so to us they were just northern irish and they looked a wee bit different (and cool enough to speak 2 languages) I was a teenager before I saw a black person in the flesh and in my 20's before I encountered, Indian/Asian and all other races.

I was afraid of appearing racist when I was merely inexperienced and naive. When i moved to holland I really say racism in a huge scale and I just don't get why it makes such a difference that someones skin is different to mine or that they believe in a different god.

I am not really sure how all these threats of attack can end, will this continue for 30 years like in Northern Ireland?
Will my sons be afraid of attacks on their lives and have to live with the constant thought they might just be in the wrong place at the wrong time?

Man's interpretation of the written word really does have a lot to answer for and it saddens me that people will have to pay the price with their lives for a misconstrued idea of how to worship a god and show true faith in life.

[WiCkEd_WeNcH]

Political prisoners are not all suicide bombers.

I'm not saying all of them are.

This may seen old fashoined and a lot of you (possibly all) will disagree with it but the only way to combat terrorism is with terrorism but by doing that it makes us no better than them. It's a viscious circle and sadly one that will never end.

[Minky]

Why cant we just transport all immergrients, packistan people out of this county and back to where they came from???

That will be me back to New Zealand then Gemma?

Minky

[Fantasseee]

That will be me back to New Zealand then Gemma?

Minky

:lol: Yep go on, bugger off :wink:

[Minky]

:lol: Yep go on, bugger off :wink:

:drama:

No way, I'm staying to torment YOU!!!

Minky

[tekkencat]

:drama:

No way, I'm staying to torment YOU!!!

Minky

I was going to say have you seen Minkys kick ass shoes but that brought up feet and sandels in my mind and ive now ive forgotten what i was going to say !

[Fantasseee]

:drama:

No way, I'm staying to torment YOU!!!

Minky
Excellent!! :clap:

[Minky]

Just for you Tekkencat: Be afraid, be VERY afraid :teehee:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v229/minkykiwi/52084janren041.jpg

These boots are made for KICKING ASS!

:teehee:

[ChelseaHarvey]

Minky loving those boots!!!!!!! Def look like there god for kicking ass, i think you should kick mine i admit i deserve it today

[*kate*]

Even my incredibly bigoted father had to concede that if he was in a country where he couldn't earn enough money to support his family and was told that there was a better life in another country and all it would take is x and y, that he would be there in a shot.
Your whole post is spot on Fants. I think there's a huge racist undertone in this country, and, although I don't condone the actions in any way, I can see that young muslims could feel shortchanged - and that when offered something better, it seems like a great option to them.

[Spleep]

:angry:
Im on abput the ones that come over here that havent been born here!!! Im on about the ones that come over illegally and they dont shouldnt need to be be here


This is who i am talking about, all the packistan people that have emigrated over here, these are the poeple causing theres problems and doing these bombs

Im not on about chinese, americans etc


I'm not a racist person at all

Oh my GOD. Someone pinch me - are these things seriously being said?:eek:

This just gets worse and worse - disgusting attitude. I'm actually *horrified* - literally jaw dropping open.

Horrified by the statements CH has made (which do just get worse and worse the further into this thread you go), by the fact that someone can openly say these and not think there's anything fundamentally wrong with what they're saying (this blows me away), and that it's clearly so firmly believed. I understand people do feel like this - but to talk about these bigoted views so nonchalantly - and even trying to correct the situation by make more bigoted statements - I'm utterly gobsmacked.

This is astounding - and rather frightening. As for apologising for the first post - my god. What about the other posts? :loco:

[frannybaby]

*delurks* In response to CH's comment...and those that followed...

In a free society we should allow different viewpoints. In the same way as British Muslims should be allowed their own view of the world, ordinary Brits should be able to discuss their fears and concerns openly about those same views and actions without being labelled as racist by the PC Brigade. That is why we have freedom of speech. There is no "right" opinion unless we live in a totalitarian state.

I do believe someone once said (something along these lines) "Think for yourselves and let others enjoy the privilege to do so too.."

What should worry people is the actions taken by people....if someone with a negative opinion of the West chooses to act upon it rather than just talk about it, now that is a problem...

[guinness]

well i'm very late to this having only just seen 'the apology' thread, but I wasnted to agree with Aly, in that if there wer no immigrant doctors / medical staff then neither I or my son would be here today.

HOWEVER, the public celebration of 7/7 and the burning of the union flag with people too scared of being labelled racist to be able to stop them is something I find very racist towards the British people - we are definitely too pc I think, and if you're happy to stay in this country and accept the dole / free education / the NHS etc then you should live by the law of the land, no matter what your religion is.

I don't want to get into the whole argument because I'm aware that it is often the British Muslims who have the strongest issues with 'Christian' britain (if you can still call it that) and our morals (or lack of them), it just makes me so sad that my / our children will have to grow up in a world where people like Twist get called foul names for being with the people they love .

One of my friends is in the process of getting divorced from a Muslim man who used to cut up her clothes because he deemed them too immoral - it's that kind of 'i'm right you're wrong' attitude that i hate FROM anyone TO anyone.

one final thought - i am now trembling at minky's boots and I don't read the Daily Mail :happyno:

[guinness]

What should worry people is the actions taken by people....if someone with a negative opinion of the West chooses to act upon it rather than just talk about it, now that is a problem...

very well said.

[*kate*]

and the burning of the union flag It's been known for the media to incite this kind of behaviour in order for them to be able to broadcast a worthwhile story. What you see on the 10 o clock news - pics of flag burning, effigy burning etc isn't always unbiased reporting.

Not that I'm saying it's never gone on though. Just that some of it is media frenzy.

[Spellbound]

you are happy to take the free education, healthcare, benefits but won't accept the law of the land, in that case you should leave the country.

Too right!
My thoughts exactly :nod:

[guinness]

It's been known for the media to incite this kind of behaviour in order for them to be able to broadcast a worthwhile story. What you see on the 10 o clock news - pics of flag burning, effigy burning etc isn't always unbiased reporting.

Not that I'm saying it's never gone on though. Just that some of it is media frenzy.

OK. I'm stepping away from this thread now....

[Nics]

Were it not for immigrants my Mum may have died 3 weeks ago, the 2 surgeons, the anethetist (sp?) and at least half of the nursing staff who looked after her, and are still doing were of non british descent.

Thank god they weren't sent "back to where they came from" is all I can say

See here's where we differ because if we didnt have a flood of immigrant medical staff we might have to pay our nurses and doctors a decent rate of pay and decent working hours...anyway a completely different debate me thinks, we have perfectly capable non immigrant nurses and doctors that just found working conditions too tough, if their shoes hadnt been filled so readily these issues may have been addressed.

[Nat]

Just wanted to say to CH - The bombers / suspected terrorists they have arrested, over todays events, and the bombings in July last year WERE BRITISH.

They were not immigrants. So they cant be "sent back to where they came from" as they CAME FROM HERE.

(Just reread my post, and want to clarify, I do not think anyone should be sent "back" anywhere for the record)

ETA CH, I dont want to start a bunfight with you, but situations, and issues like this are emotive for everyone, and without being properly informed, it does cause offence. The biggest problem in this war against terror is the very fact the terrorists are "home grown" if you had known that, you may not have said what you did, and offended so many people. I think that being well informed about issues is much better for you to A) form your own opinion on things , and B) express your views in a more enlightened way.

[Cherrypie]

See here's where we differ because if we didnt have a flood of immigrant medical staff we might have to pay our nurses and doctors a decent rate of pay and decent working hours...anyway a completely different debate me thinks, we have perfectly capable non immigrant nurses and doctors that just found working conditions too tough, if their shoes hadnt been filled so readily these issues may have been addressed.

Immigrant medical staff, nurses etc earn just the same rates of pay as British ones. Just as my DH will earn just the same rate of pay as NZ nurses when we emmigrate next week.

[honeybunchbuffle]

Crikey - I've just come online and seen the reaction to this thread.

Can. Open. Worms. Everywhere.

[*kate*]

Look at what you started Magic :laff:

[Nat]

I think what nics is getting at (although Im sure she can speak for herself) is that people are reluctant to become nurses etc as the pay is so bad, and they feel it isnt worth it. The "immigrants" however, will accept the low salary, and get on with it. Therefore, as the jobs are getting filled, there is no need for the top knobs or whoever to review the pay rates / bands as they dont see an issue.. .

If the immigrants where also refusing to work for such low salary, perhaps there would be a review of rates of pay... That is an NHS issue rather than a race issue I think... Its not about them earning less, its about the fact our nurses etc are all so so badly regardless.

(Anyway, I digress completely, and shall be going away now... :oops: )

Night everyone. x

[Nics]

I think what nics is getting at (although Im sure she can speak for herself) is that people are reluctant to become nurses etc as the pay is so bad, and they feel it isnt worth it. The "immigrants" however, will accept the low salary, and get on with it. Therefore, as the jobs are getting filled, there is no need for the top knobs or whoever to review the pay rates / bands as they dont see an issue.. .

If the immigrants where also refusing to work for such low salary, perhaps there would be a review of rates of pay... That is an NHS issue rather than a race issue I think... Its not about them earning less, its about the fact our nurses etc are all so so badly regardless.

(Anyway, I digress completely, and shall be going away now... :oops: )

Night everyone. x

Dear Nat

Thanks for digging me out of a trillion holes tonight!! Thats exactly what I was trying to say!!!

N xx

[DannyGirl]

:bowdown: oh Nat don't go everyone is welcome to their views.

What I wanted to say about the nurse situation is that the government are recruiting people from other countries to come and be nurses etc over here.
I don't know if anybody saw that program "The Great Black Invasion" on channel 4 the other day, but basically after the war the british government needed more nurses to come and work in the hospitals. Its not like they were not invited.

[L66TTY]

hmm I have some questions for you I was born in Iran my parents were born in the UK and grand parents ad infinitum.

If I have my child in say Oz what nationality does that make them? Say if I didn't know who the father was?

Should I be shipped back to Iran if I think this country is going to pot? Or am I more "British" than those who were born here to parents born here?

My other bug bear is when people say that people from different cultures don't intergrate. But when we go live in say Dubai you don't see expat. kids going to arabic schools and so on and so forth....?

I think what happened today is gobsmaking, my Husband was supposed to fly on Saturday to Brazil I am made up as it looks like he will now be home for the weekend!!! He will be off there soon though.

I think its a very sad day that fellow ciizens of the UK have been deemed to be at blame. But this sudden crack down is timed just a little to well for my liking...... I think that its a bit of an over the top reaction at the right time for Polictical gain and to prove that Tony the puppet and George the puppet master with no brains were right to get involved in Lebanon and Iraq.

[kersplatt]

OK, wasn't gonna get involved in this but since you've brought up nursing, what the hey!!!

The NHS would come to a stand still without immigrant nurses and midwives and doctors. Let's face it, who out of you white English middle class well educated people would want to do a job where you get paid less than a teacher or police officer, but according to national statistics, will be faced with more violence than any other job?!!

I'm white, I'm English, one day I hope, I may be classed as well enough off to get by. I do the job because I love it - yes I do get that warm fluffy feeling inside when I have doen a good job or someone thanks me for my time and attention - yes I am that sad.

English people do not want to be nurses. So if not English, white people staffing our hospitals and saving your lives then who?!!!

As regards the comments made about 'sending them all back to where they came from,' well where do you start. All I suggest is that perhaps ChelseaHarvey comes from a very white part of England and probably can't tell the difference between Sikhs, muslims or Hindus, let alone Pakistani or Indian people. This doesn't make her comments any better or any more excusable, but it does suggest that unless you either travel beyond your own community or educate yourself about the world that we live in, then you will come across this attitude more often than is acceptable in this day and age - especially if we consider ourselves a civilised society.

If anything, of a Saturday night in a London A&E, I can honestly say, the people who cause the most problems are those white English, 'I'm entitled to do what I like cos I woz born ere innit' watch as I vomit and urinate in my sleep, young people who are so drunk and so intent on having a 'good time' that they couldn't give a damn about the consequences. I don't agree with Shariah law, but I do think Islam has some good points. And no, I do not agree with terrorism on any level

K

Waits for buns to be hurled

[DannyGirl]

Ok i said I was going to not contribute any more to this topic as I don't think the CH even understand why what she said was wrong. Anyway I totally agree with you kersplatt you made some good points there.

Right I shall not make ne more comments about this topic, because its like getting blood out of a stone

[1980babe]

Why cant we just transport all immergrients, packistan people out of this county and back to where they came from???

Wow, CH what a view? :scratchchin: I cannot agree with you on this at all and feel really saddened at reading this comment.

If this were to happen the country's backbone would instantly collapse. As other posts have said, the NHS would surely crumble, I think this is why the government is looking into this immigration amnesty.

Where would I go back to:shrug: I am black, was born here, as were my parents and raised in *true-british* culture. My identity and individualism stems from being black british, which only curtailed from being born here IYSWIM

Im so sad and it makes me angry that my children are born into this kind of evil world - in a sense I feel that about 99% of their innocence has been auto-taken what with paedophilia, murderers and now terrorism.

What next:no:

--->off to mope in a corner:cry:

[Spleep]

I don't think the CH even understand why what she said was wrong.

Which is what's so bloody shocking. And frightening.

[Annie Goolahey]

Kersplatt,
Well bloody said missus :bow:

[Nics]

Which is what's so bloody shocking. And frightening.

Lets stop picking at Gemma, she has apologised over and over for this!

[Diddlum]

Lets stop picking at Gemma, she has apologised over and over for this!

Hear, hear.:clap:

[Spleep]

Not meaning to 'pick'. Just expressing my opinion, as she did hers.

But as you wish.:smile:

[Angel]

I think Kersplatt has expressed my thoughts on this too - far more eloquently than I ever could.

:clap:

[natacha]

I too think you should give CH a break now; I think it was probably something she hadn't thought out and typed in the heat of the moment.

I don't for ONE MOMENT agree with what she said but racism isn't illegal (yet). FWIW I thought Bex's opinions were equally shocking, just more convoluted.:shock:

[MrsGucci]

Why can't we live and let live?

I don't like the fact there are people out there that hate the West and feel the need to blow us and themselves up and we should do all we can to stop them but we must all remember that in our society there are good and bad people regardless of skin colour or religion and we should never judge a whole race of people on the behaviour of a minority.

I just take each person I meet as they come and I like to think that the majority of muslim people don't think that all white people are white supremecists, I wouldn't want to be tarred with that brush!

Sal
x

[xcel]

I find the best way to get a good understanding is to watch programs like Question Time, especially around times like 9/11 and 7/7. When you hear these educated people of all races and cultures discussing why young Muslims are becoming radicalised for example, and turning to extremism to express themselves, it makes you have a deeper understanding.

I believe the younger generation don't feel as strongly that any country is 'theirs'. Perhaps its because we didn't have to fight for it and are too young to have been affected by those who did lose their lives, but because of this i don't feel i have the right to throw anyone out of anywhere.

Even my incredibly bigoted father had to concede that if he was in a country where he couldn't earn enough money to support his family and was told that there was a better life in another country and all it would take is x and y, that he would be there in a shot.

Immigration has always existed, it certainly isn't a modern phenomenon, and CH if we and many of the other European countries hadn't travelled the world colonising other countries and by doing so making those people British citizens, then they wouldn't have made their way over so easily. It is US that created the situation, US who invited and encouraged many people to come over to fill jobs that we couldn't fill ourselves due to skills shortages, so to turn around and make such an ignorant statement about 'sending them back to their own country' is incredible.

Lastly i just wanted to say that it is surely a fine example in that the man making the most important decisions in the world, Bush, is as thick as shit, trigger happy and hadn't even stepped foot outside his own country before election to have the faintest idea what was happening in the world. IMO he was voted in by rednecks and i think he is pouring fuel on the terrorists flames everytime he opens his mouth. I am embarrassed that he is the elected representative of the western world.




delurks to post for the first time

sorry to ressurect this thread but :thumb: :clap: :clap:
brillianly and eloquently put!

[xcel]

OK, wasn't gonna get involved in this but since you've brought up nursing, what the hey!!!

The NHS would come to a stand still without immigrant nurses and midwives and doctors. Let's face it, who out of you white English middle class well educated people would want to do a job where you get paid less than a teacher or police officer, but according to national statistics, will be faced with more violence than any other job?!!

I'm white, I'm English, one day I hope, I may be classed as well enough off to get by. I do the job because I love it - yes I do get that warm fluffy feeling inside when I have doen a good job or someone thanks me for my time and attention - yes I am that sad.

English people do not want to be nurses. So if not English, white people staffing our hospitals and saving your lives then who?!!!

As regards the comments made about 'sending them all back to where they came from,' well where do you start. All I suggest is that perhaps ChelseaHarvey comes from a very white part of England and probably can't tell the difference between Sikhs, muslims or Hindus, let alone Pakistani or Indian people. This doesn't make her comments any better or any more excusable, but it does suggest that unless you either travel beyond your own community or educate yourself about the world that we live in, then you will come across this attitude more often than is acceptable in this day and age - especially if we consider ourselves a civilised society.

If anything, of a Saturday night in a London A&E, I can honestly say, the people who cause the most problems are those white English, 'I'm entitled to do what I like cos I woz born ere innit' watch as I vomit and urinate in my sleep, young people who are so drunk and so intent on having a 'good time' that they couldn't give a damn about the consequences. I don't agree with Shariah law, but I do think Islam has some good points. And no, I do not agree with terrorism on any level

K

Waits for buns to be hurled



this too:clap: :clap:

[Azana]

This thread was so over and finished - why drag it up again - and who are you?

[xcel]

This thread was so over and finished - why drag it up again - and who are you?



what do you mean who are you? who are you?

[Azana]

A regular poster here. Just thought it might have been nice of you to introduce yourself, that is all - are you going to be a regular poster or just limit yourself to this thread - just wondering?

[xcel]

i joined in may but haven't been around these parts since. i just saw that thread and it provoked a strong reaction in me , i had to register my agreement with those two posts 'cos that's exactly how i feel. no malice intended and i certainly didn't expect any one to notice.

i just thought your post rather aggressive. i know the thread had been dormant for a while but i don't know of any rule that says they can't be resurected, though i did apologize before hand.

i expect i shall introduce myself in a more conventional manner at some point. hope that settles it.

[Damsella]

I think I will close this thread now. I don't think anything useful can be added to it at this stage.